You'll find we've already written a Dvar Torah that explains a Pasuk in Toldos, located here
This Dvar Torah blew me away. When it was clear that they would be unable to have children, Isaac and Rivka prayed, and the Pasuk (21:25) says:
'וַיֶּעְתַּר יִצְחָק לַיהוָה לְנֹכַח אִשְׁתּוֹ, כִּי עֲקָרָה הִו וַיֵּעָתֶר לוֹ ה - "And Isaac entreated the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and He relented to him"
A gentleman once told R' Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld a short Dvar Torah on this. Why does the Pasuk say "and He relented to him". Does this not seems an odd way of saying that G-d heard and heeded his prayer?
The gentleman explained that there is a tradition that all the Patriarchs were meant to live until the age of 180. Yet Avraham died aged 175 (25:2). We can work this out: Avraham was 99 when he circumcised himself, 100 at Isaac's birth, 137 at the Akeida, at which point Isaac was obviously 37. Isaac was 40 at his marriage, and 60 at the birth of Yaakov and Esau (25:26) making Avraham 160 at their birth. Esau first murdered aged 15, making Avraham 175. There is a Rashi that Avraham would live to see Yishmael repent (25:9), but die before Esau killed someone for the first time (25:30). If he died aged 175, where are the missing 5 years?
The gentleman said to R' Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld that 'וַיֵּעָתֶר לוֹ ה is the answer. There was never any doubt that Isaac would have children, his father had been promised "nations", certainly Isaac would have children then, and Rivka would certainly be their mother as she was the one deemed worthy, as evidenced by the miracles Eliezer witnessed. וַיֵּעָתֶר לוֹ ה can be interpreted to mean that G-d did not want to give them children just yet, He simply wanted them to wait a bit longer so Avraham would not live to see his grandson become a murderer.
When R' Yosef Chaim heard this, he jumped up and exclaimed that this vort was Emess, because 'וַיֵּעָתֶר לוֹ ה is Gematria (numerical value) 748 (686+36+26), which is the same Gematria as חמש שנים - five years - 748, which represents G-d relenting to their prayers to have children at the expense of חמש שנים from Avraham Avinu's life.
R'Yosef Chaim also said that we say " רְצוֹן-יְרֵאָיו יַעֲשֶׂה; וְאֶת-שַׁוְעָתָם יִשְׁמַע, וְיוֹשִׁיעֵם - He will fulfil the desire of them that fear Him; He also will hear their cry, and will save them ". Isn't this in the wrong order? Doesn't Hashem fulfil their desires to placate their cries? R' Yosef Chaim explains that the prayers of a devout person are able to change what is meant to happen to people, which explains fulfilling their desires. But people don't know what's best for them, and sometimes suffer as a consequence of getting what they desire. The pasuk teaches that Hashem will even repair this later cry of suffering that is of their own doing.
Geshmack !
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Small Hosafa from the Sassover Rebbe, Rivka gave birth to twins after a full term of pregnancy and suffered during childbirth, whereas Tamar gave birth to twins prematurely and had an easy labour. Not that giving birth prematurely is a good thing, it most certainly is not, but why did Rivka not give birth early but easily? Becuase 5 years had already been knocked off from Avraham, and that was enough already.
The last line of your post is truly Geshmack!
The line that says "Geshmack" or the maamar from R' Yosef Chaim? :)
I think this leaves the question why Esav could not behave until age 20.
It's a Kashya on a Maaseh :)
Thats why you should always daven for stuff and add 'only if it is good for me to have it' and never daven for a particular job or shidduch or whatever to work out cos it may be wrong for u... daven for parnassah, hatzlacha, mazal, bracha, shidduch, children etc.... but be vague n not specific.... scary stuff!!
> It's a Kashya on a Maaseh :)
Why avoid a question :-)?
In the Drash you bring, Esav's misbehavior at age 15 was taken as a given before the Maaseh. Let me ask another question, as it may lead to an answer. There would have been more ways to solve the tension between Avraham's 180 years and Yitzchak's and Rivka's Tefilla for children. Ya'akov could have been born when Avraham was 160 and Esav when he was 165.
I avoided the question because I didn't have an answer, but now I do. :)
It is without question a given, I'll point you to 25:26 and Rashi D"H
25:26 - כו. וְאַחֲרֵי כֵן יָצָא אָחִיו וְיָדוֹ אֹחֶזֶת בַּעֲקֵב עֵשָׂו וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ יַעֲקֹב וְיִצְחָק בֶּן שִׁשִּׁים שָׁנָה בְּלֶדֶת אֹתָם:
And afterwards, his brother emerged, and his hand was grasping Esau's heel, and he named him Jacob. Now Isaac was sixty years old when she gave birth to them.
Isaac was born when Avraham was 100 - he was now 160. He died 15 years later. They were 15.
Rashi D"H Min HaOdom HaOdom
מן האדם האדם: עדשים אדומות, ואותו היום מת אברהם שלא יראה את עשו בן בנו יוצא לתרבות רעה, ואין זו שיבה טובה שהבטיחו הקב"ה, לפיכך קצר הקב"ה חמש שנים משנותיו
some of this red, red [pottage]: red lentils. And on that day, Abraham died, lest he see Esau, his grandson, falling into bad ways, for that would not be the “good old age” that the Holy One, blessed be He, had promised him. Therefore, the Holy One, blessed be He, shortened his life by five years.
I hope this answers your question.
Yishar Koach. What you see is firstly that this Rashi is part of the Geschmack. Secondly, to sell the Bechora, Esav had to be born first. This answers my second question assuming an understanding of why the selling of the Bechora is essential. Thirdly, pretty awesome, the death of Avraham was instrumental to transfer the Bechora. So this transfer had better be essential. But why? And why after fifteen years? Why not after twenty?
Although no time span is mentioned in the Sidra, perhaps we can assume that the Brochos were given to Yaakov soon after Avraham's death, as there is little information we are given in between, these events. Yaakov had no right to them without the Bechora, so perhaps the seder was as it is presented in the Sidra. Well done for nothing that Avraham's death was instrumental in Yaakov' acquisition of the Bechora, I'd not heard or read that before, altohugh now you mention it it seems pretty obvious!
The Rashi sort of is the vort, but it leads to R' Yosef Chaim's brilliant punchline. But it would seem everyone is in on it :)
ויעתר לו השם also refers to Avraham. Behind the scenes, Avraham achieved a Tikkun. In the natural state of the world, man can be righteous, but evil rules the world. In this natural scheme, Esav would have been born at Avraham's age 164, and Yaakov at 165. Esav would have been Bechor forever. Avraham would have died in a world that cannot be ruled by people like him. For Avraham that is no way to die. HaShem did not take five years from Avraham without asking him. Avraham sacrificed five years of his life, and the birth of Yaakov was moved up the same five years, so that Avraham would not see fewer years of Yaakov. The birth of Esav had to be moved up also, because he had yet to be born Bechor. Esav's birth, however, was not moved up more than necessary, and so Yaakov and Esav came to be born as twins. As a result, the Bechora became a kind of Safek, though Esav was born first. The death of Avraham, then, shocked Esav into selling his Bechora. Avraham left a world that can be ruled by Tsaddikim. That is why it says he died Savea.
That's an interesting idea, where did you hear it? If Esav's birth was being delayed, why not by a few more minutes and avoid the issue? I saw a kashya on "buying" a Bechora, such a thing clearly has no bearing today l'halocha, so what really happened? I can't recall a teretz...
Esav and Yaakov were born as twins to show Avraham that the Tikkun was on its way. The buying worked only because Yaakov was in truth conceived first. You can see it from what I wrote before. Esav was only born on the day he was born because Yaakov was to be born that day.
This reflects the most fundamental aspects of reality. HaShem wanted to create a physical world with which He could interact, in which He would be recognized as the Creator, in which He would dwell, in which he could benefit His creations as Melech HaOlam. To reach that purpose, first the world must be ruled by opposite forces. Yet the Redemption is certain, because it was conceived first, and evil will succumb, because it is only a derivation. Put differently, HaShem wanted to create a Messianic world. But the creation of that world necessitates the premessianic world. The latter precedes the former in time. The former precedes the latter in truth, in conception.
Moshe Rephael,
You asked why Esav went of the derech when he was fifteen. If he had waited until 20 then Avraham would have had his full 180 years.
Besides the fact that N's answer that your question is on a fact is a valid answer. Still, here is another answer that may be more satisfying:
Esav did not wait until he was 15 to go off the derech. Rashi on 25:27 says that he went of the derech when he was a child. Nobody paid any attention though. They simply chalked it up to the fact that he was a child.
Regarding the contradiction between the 2 Rashi's (whether he went of the derech at age 13 or 15) see the Daas Zekainim on 25:27 and the Gur Aryeh on 25:30.
Great vort btw. Thanks!
Just wanted to say what a great vort this is - very few websites or blogs give amazing results week after week with amazing Shabbos Table Say-ability!!!
Thanks for telling me about your blog it truly is Geshmak!
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